Copper Metabolism-A Health Game Changer with Morley Robbins

It’s Rainmaking Time!®
Copper Metabolism: A Health Game Changer with Morley Robbins
Host & Interviewer: Kim Greenhouse

Kim: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Kim Greenhouse and you are tuning into It’s Rainmaking Time. To find us these days you can find us at iTunes on itsrainmakingtime.ch. We do post to YouTube, but due to the number of health interviews that have been removed from YouTube, we may post it but we’re not going to hold our breath that it may stay. You and I are living in a world today where most of us will look at peer review and will feel and think that that is the gold standard of learning about new discoveries and new things. We did a whole show on peer review so that you better understand that it may not be, and it for sure is not what you think it is. So many incredible discoveries don’t get through peer review and are often buried or hidden or deliberately suppressed. They can go on for 75 years. And so when a discovery, a true discovery comes out that’s been around a long time, but that body of research is synthesized and brought to you in the modern day. When we have the allopathic medical field, we have pharmacology and we have the integrated medicine field.

Kim: What you may find is that you are in no man’s land when you hear the information. And so what I want to invite you all to do is to fall in love with learning, to be receptive, because this discovery is so important. It will impact your health and wellbeing now and for the rest of your lives, also for your children, their children, and for future generations. This is a hidden discovery and a necessity for all biological life. In fact, copper has been missing from the food production area. It’s been missing from medicine, it’s been missing from our daily food and all of agriculture. You’re going to find out that it is so essential to all living parts of our body, all our organ systems, our energy systems. And yet copper metabolism as it relates to iron is totally missing from a central understanding of biological health and wellbeing.

Kim: Our guest is a renowned pioneer. He is the author of the book Cure Your Fatigue: How Balancing Three Minerals and Protein is the Solution That You’re Looking For. He is also the founder of the Root Cause Protocol, where he’s training practitioners how to deliver health and wellness and even challenging the entire supplement industry, challenging pharmacology, challenging the mainstream narrative. And so a lot of us that believe what we believe and have these strongly held beliefs may have trouble with some of it, but a lot of us are going to be delighted. It is my great honor and pleasure to welcome somebody I consider the Copper Rabbi — Morley Robbins. Welcome to It’s Rainmaking Time!

Morley: Thank you, Kim. I love that. It’s true. That’s funny. That’s a great appellation. I love that. If anyone had told me in my fifties that 20 years later I’m going to be taking on the entire medical establishment, challenging the narrative of every conceivable industry that deals with health, I’d say no, I don’t think so. But now that I’m here, I’m like, I’m loving it. I’ve never had so much fun in my life. I’ve never learned so much. And for the listeners, I’ve been doing this for 15 years now, spending two to three hours a day, seven days a week for 15 years. And you read a lot of articles in that timeframe. And just to reinforce what you’ve shared, Kim, I had the opportunity to spend an entire day with a renowned consultant to the natural food industry. His name was Michael Greenberg, very talented guy. And he said, Morley, what you’re going to find is everybody wants to know what’s new. Hey Michael, what’s new? He said, my sincere advice to you is focus on what’s enduring and let go the new stuff. And it was that conversation that for some reason I looked back in time and I discovered that there was a point in the earth’s history when there was no oxygen on this planet for many, many years. What is an established fact is that copper saved us from that environment. Copper is unique in its ability to work with oxygen. It’s unique in its ability to work with iron. And it turns out that those are the two most powerful toxic elements on planet earth. After fluorine gas, oxygen is the most reactive element on the planet. Iron is the master pro-oxidant on the planet and what kills us is oxidative stress — every conceivable chronic disease you know of has unchecked oxidative stress at its core.

Kim: Can I interrupt you here for just a minute? A lot of people when they hear oxidative stress, we hear it like — you have stress, so what, we all have stress, so what? In other words, it’s been normalized in conversation, particularly in the health and wellbeing and longevity circles. You have oxidative stress — so for most of us, we don’t know how to hold that. It’s like, okay, but it has profound biological effects. Explain it.

Morley: Absolutely. Let me bring it down a notch. 20% of our air we breathe is oxygen. It’s a poison. We can’t live without it. We can’t age without it either. And so we have mitochondria in our body that are able to turn that O2 molecule into two molecules of H2O — got to turn oxygen into water. And I think it’s the most important chemical reaction on the planet. That transfer of oxygen into water allows energy molecules to be released. That’s what keeps us going all day long. We make our body weight in ATP every day. And if you can’t turn oxygen into water, you’re not going to release the ATP. But more importantly, you’re going to turn the oxygen into oxidants. It’s going to become superoxide, it’s going to become hydrogen peroxide, it’s going to become the hydroxyl radical — something very negative, peroxynitrate. There’s some very destructive elements that are produced if the oxygen does not become water in our mitochondria. And the complex where that takes place is called complex four, and the enzyme is called cytochrome C oxidase. Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931.

Kim: What is that?

Morley: Well, that’s just telling you exactly where it’s taking place. It’s an oxidase reaction taking place in the liver. And that’s how the enzyme classification system runs. But the point is we cannot make energy and we cannot clear exhaust if we don’t have bioavailable copper. And so when we’re driving our car, we’re moving forward and we don’t pay attention to the exhaust coming out the other end. But there is exhaust coming out. There’s always exhaust coming out of our car and there’s always exhaust coming out of mitochondria. A certain level is fine. It’s when the exhaust gets too high that it becomes what’s called oxidative stress and the body loses its ability to respond to the environment. And so when we have stress in our world — got a deadline, had an argument with my spouse, had a lousy meal, got food poisoning, whatever it might be — when you have stress in your world, you have oxidative stress in your body. And that oxidative stress is causing cellular energy deficiency. And that’s the base before all of the chronic disease. There are 20,000 conditions profiled in the Merck Manual and they all begin with cellular energy deficiency.

Kim: Let’s establish another reference point for the listeners who may have heard that copper is a toxin — that basically if it’s unmanaged, it’s loose in the system, it’s dangerous to the system. How did that come to be and how did the iron relationship with copper come into your awareness?

Morley: Great question. I started out studying magnesium because we lose magnesium when we’re under stress. I was just fascinated by that. I started with Carolyn Dean and then graduated to Mildred Seelig, who was a very noted figure. She was a physician who really brought a lot of truth forward about magnesium. And I was fascinated about why we’re always losing magnesium. And one day I was reading an article about iron and the author decided to wake me up and use the phrase, the greatest stress on planet earth is iron stress. And I began to realize how much iron is in our body. And that iron stress got me to oxygen, to connect the iron and the oxygen. We’re talking over a period of several years — this didn’t happen in a matter of weeks.

Kim: Never does, does it?

Morley: Never does. And then I began to question — why is the oxidative stress unchecked? Because there’s a lack of copper-based enzymes to neutralize that oxidative stress. And so it was over probably a period of three or four years that I began to move away from magnesium and it got me to copper. And the way I describe it is, if copper is not bioavailable, it will cause iron and oxygen to get dysregulated, and that’s what causes the magnesium loss. So that’s how that evolved over a number of years. To your point about copper toxicity, there are what I call men of science that are just doing their job. Louis Pasteur was one of those men of science, Ansel Keys, a man of science, Anthony Fauci —

Kim: Linus Pauling.

Morley: Linus Pauling, Anthony Fauci — men of science, just following orders. Another order taker, as far as I’m concerned, is an individual named Carl Pfeiffer. He got his PhD before he got his MD. It should make you a little nervous — means he didn’t get into medical school right away. And it turns out he was a principal in the MK Ultra program at the CIA. But when I find out information like that, it immediately discredits that person. So he published some very important articles in the sixties.

Kim: I have chills all over my body, by the way, as you’re talking about this.

Morley: Well, it’s just following orders, doing what he’s told to do. And he got people to believe that copper had a relationship with zinc, and all this started in the sixties. I’ve studied the literature from 1900 all the way up to the present day. But prior to 1960, the focus was iron and copper — very clear focus. Some of the great scientists, Otto Warburg, Hans Krebs, Conrad Elvehjem — these are luminaries in the world of mineral research. They were obsessed with iron and oxygen, and why iron and copper? Because they were focused on making energy. There’s nothing about zinc that makes energy. What does zinc do? It blocks copper uptake. It destroys the ferroxidase enzyme function of ceruloplasmin, which is a critical copper protein. It stops the cytochrome C oxidase function in complex four of the mitochondria that’s turning oxygen into water. But yet we’re supposed to venerate zinc and ignore copper.

Kim: So many copper supplements — the very few that are on the market — are connected and have a portion of zinc in them, including some very big providers. And sometimes you don’t know — are they doing it so they don’t get in trouble, or they don’t want to rock the boat to have bioavailable copper without the zinc? It’s hard to know what the motivating factor is. But zinc has been touted very big in the last five years since COVID-19 arrived on the scene, and it was pushed by some very wonderful people as part of a healing methodology. So I’m sure it’s going to ruffle feathers to even be bringing this up.

Morley: I’ve been ruffling feathers for 15 years.

Kim: You’re a professional.

Morley: It was in March of 2020 when I was reflecting on the COVID cocktail — high dose ascorbic acid, high dose vitamin D, high dose zinc. Well, that’s the triad to kill the bioavailability of copper. And so at that point, I renamed what COVID stood for. COV stands for Copper’s Vanished. ID — Iron’s Dysregulated. The part that you and your listeners may not know about was the research that was done in March of 1928 at the University of Wisconsin, where Dr. Hart and his team withheld copper from the animals’ diet and iron exploded in their liver. Three months later in May of 1928, Dr. McCarr did the same experiment just to establish science — you’ve got to have two independent labs. So just from a hundred years ago, they knew that if copper was not in the diet, it was going to cause this massive accumulation of iron.

Morley: And what does that do? If you put a lot of iron in the liver, you’re going to kill copper metabolism and retinol metabolism. Well, why is that important? If you’re trying to destroy the bioavailability of copper, you want to get rid of copper and retinol — and voila, that’s what we have. And so there’s a very famous plant physiologist named Sabeeha Merchant, very talented individual, and in one of her signature articles called Between a Rock and a Hard Place from 2006, she profiled side by side copper enzymes that were meant to run the planet and iron enzymes that have replaced them. So you’ve probably heard of cytochrome P450 enzymes. They’re very prevalent in the liver — there’s a family of like 52 different enzymes.

Kim: I haven’t, but Warren Bennis once told me there are gaps in your education, Ms. Greenhouse. This was when I was 19.

Morley: That’s all right. So cytochrome P450 is a big deal in the liver. In an iron toxic liver, the enzyme that’s supposed to run the liver is called tyrosinase, and tyrosinase is found at the center of the whole food vitamin C complex. It’s not found in ascorbic acid.

Kim: By the way, I did a whole show on ascorbic acid. I did a whole show on vitamin D. And remember, these things are done in time and they’re done over time. And so many of us forget. When we hear these things — I can’t tell you how many health practitioners and fitness people are standing up telling people to take high dosages of vitamin D, D3, et cetera. Massive. I was on 10,000 a month from the practitioner that was guiding me five years ago until I found out about the Root Cause Protocol. It was shocking. Can you tell the people taking vitamin D supplements or D3 what they need to know?

Morley: The most important thing to know — let’s back up. The question that you’ve never asked when you were told that you were vitamin D deficient was, why? And the doctor couldn’t have told you the enzyme that makes the storage D. There are two types — there’s storage and active. Like all hormones, it’s a hormone folks, it’s not a vitamin. There’s a storage level and an active level. The storage level takes the precursor, couples it with magnesium and the enzyme — the 25-hydroxylase enzyme — and turns it into 25-hydroxy vitamin D. And that’s what gets measured in the blood test. Every blood test you’ve ever had for vitamin D is that.

Morley: And it’s made in your liver. If you’re like most people in Western civilization, you don’t have much copper in your diet. So iron is building in your liver — it’s a fact. And when iron is building in your liver, that 25-hydroxylase enzyme doesn’t work so well. And so the production of vitamin D storage will be down. You’ll be told you’re deficient, but they can’t tell you why. I’m telling you why — because you’ve got too much iron. And iron causes oxidative stress in the liver and causes magnesium loss. That’s part of the magnesium burn rate that we talk about within the Root Cause Protocol. The other part they’ve not told you is that there is an active form that’s principally made in the kidneys and it’s called 1,25-hydroxy vitamin D. And it’s made by another enzyme. The part that they’ve never told you is that there’s an enzyme called PAM. You’ve never heard of it?

Kim: Yeah, I was going to ask you about PAM.

Morley: No doctors have ever told you about PAM. Peptidylglycine alpha-amidating monooxygenase. There are 35 letters in that enzyme. And that enzyme activates hormones, signaling peptides, neurotransmitters. Guess how many there are in your body? 4,700. There’s one enzyme — the PAM enzyme — copper dependent, doesn’t work without copper. And you can’t turn your hormones on, your neurotransmitters on, your signaling peptides on without the PAM enzyme activating them. I think people need to know that.

Kim: That is shocking.

Morley: That is shocking.

Morley: And so the body makes what I call parked cars. Literally all your signaling peptides are parked cars. A parked car doesn’t do you any good until you can turn it on. That’s really why we drive cars — so we can move. And you can’t turn the engine on without the PAM enzyme. And so the active form of D is made principally in the kidney. But it’s also made in macrophages — which are the pac-men that gobble up the bad guys. And when the macrophages start making the active form, it means you’re really sick and your active D will start to rise because what is it trying to do? It’s trying to kill the pathogens behind the illness that you’ve got. It’s called antimicrobial peptides. And 1,25-hydroxy vitamin D will become an antimicrobial peptide under the right conditions. I think that’s really good to know. And so why —

Kim: Why aren’t we testing for that? Can we test for that?

Morley: Of course you can test for it. Fascinating. But doctors will test for storage and active hormones all day long — thyroid, sex organs, there’s a whole bunch of them that they’ll test both storage and active. But when it comes to hormone D — well, that active, it’s a very short-lived metabolite. And they hide behind this facade of, I know what I’m talking about when I tell you that active D is not very long lived. There’s a relationship between storage and active. The number for active, it’s measured in picograms. Storage is measured in nanograms, but the number should be two and a half times bigger than storage. I’ve had clients where it’s been way higher than that. And what that means is they are really populated with pathogens and the practitioner doesn’t know that. It’s just fascinating.

Kim: It’s fascinating. A whole other world of understanding what’s going on.

Kim: I want to go to ceruloplasmin, if we can. I had my blood taken months ago before I left to move to Virginia. One of your practitioners was my consultant. And we tested everything, but I was shocked that most of us are not taking a test to look at ceruloplasmin. I want you to explain why it’s so important.

Morley: The two words that I despise the most in medicine and nutrition are high and low. The real word is bioavailable. Is the nutrient that you’re worried about usable? Is it bioactive?

Kim: I love that. That’s very profound.

Morley: Who cares whether it’s high or low. And so what makes copper usable are the enzymes. And there are scores of enzymes that you’ve never heard about. Ceruloplasmin is a protein that has 1,046 amino acids. To give you a frame of reference, insulin has 45. So we’re talking about something that has 1,046 and it has eight copper atoms inside it. It’s pretty complicated. It’s pretty darn important too. And so in the world of biochemistry, you have what are called substrates — elements that serve to stimulate activity within a protein to create what’s called enzyme function. Great book on enzymes for the folks who are in the reading crowd — Enzymes: The Fountain of Life. Enzymes are little engines, can’t live without them. And so this protein, this very large protein that was discovered in 1948 by Holmberg and Laurell, two Swedish physiologists — they thought they discovered the holy grail. They in fact had.

Kim: Maybe they did. I was going to say.

Morley: And so cerulo is a word for blue — blue in the plasma. Ceruloplasmin. And it can work with 15 different substrates. Now if you get into the literature, they’ll tell you, oh, it’s only for iron, don’t worry about anything else. There are actually 15 different elements — like oxygen, amine groups, phenol groups. I’m not trying to turn people into biochemists, but I want you to understand the raw intelligence of this protein that it can work with 15 different substrates and express 15 different enzyme functions, which is a very hard concept to accept. So this protein can be a skateboard. Oh, you want a bike? I can do a bike. You want a motorbike? Got that. You want an airplane? I can do the airplane. And it has this capacity to flex to the situation, which requires intelligence, but it also requires copper in the diet. And it also requires retinol in the diet because retinol is a very important element that’s been overshadowed by vitamin D. Retinol is vitamin A.

Kim: Vitamin A has been demonized heavily. I look at a carrot, I’m scared to put it in a salad.

Morley: Two fat soluble vitamins have been weaponized — those would be vitamin D and K. And two fat soluble vitamins have been ostracized — vitamin A and E. And if you knew how important vitamin A and E were, you’d be running down the street like your hair was on fire screaming, why didn’t they tell me this? And so vitamin —

Kim: I’m going to ask why they didn’t tell me. For example, I have dry eye. I’m so mad. I’ve been through all the most advanced tests. By the way, I just ordered cod liver oil, and I’m so excited to get rolling. I have a feeling it’s going to end this.

Morley: I have more than a feeling. I’m pretty confident. How far do we go with this conversation?

Kim: As far as you want to go.

Morley: Well, I think everyone wants to know — is the earth flat or round? It’s actually a Petri dish.

Kim: What does that mean?

Morley: It’s a Petri dish. We are just a lab experiment. That’s really what I think. The operating system of the people at the top feeds off of our misery. That’s how simple it is. And you don’t need to be a conspiracist to believe that there must be people at the top who are doing some really crazy things. I just know that the people in charge right now don’t want us to know this knowledge. And we were never designed to be this broken, to be this tired, to be this defective.

Kim: The whole cholesterol thing is a lie. You know how many people we know are on statins? I did a whole show on how the cholesterol lie came to be. This was years ago. It was shocking then, but it didn’t stop people from taking them.

Morley: This is the part you didn’t know. There’s a process of making what are called iron-sulfur clusters. Most of our iron is tied up in moving blood, moving oxygen, in hemoglobin — 70% of our iron is tied up in hemoglobin. 10% is in myoglobin, a molecule that’s holding oxygen for the muscles. So 80% of our iron is a waiter carrying oxygen. But there’s a certain percentage that goes into making what are called iron-sulfur clusters. It’s a mixture of iron and sulfur working together to enable the mitochondria to work. The part you didn’t know is that there’s an enzyme called Glutaredoxin. Glutaredoxin is really important to work with iron so that it doesn’t become problematic in making an iron-sulfur cluster. And Glutaredoxin is copper dependent. If copper goes down, it doesn’t work right. And guess what rises? Cholesterol.

Kim: Iron, not cholesterol.

Morley: Cholesterol rises. And it turns out that there are 11 molecules of oxygen in every molecule of cholesterol. So what is cholesterol? It’s an oxygen sink — because it knows you don’t have enough copper to activate it, it’s going to put it into cholesterol to protect you. Cholesterol was never the bad guy. Cholesterol was telling you, hey, we’ve got a problem here. And cholesterol alone was never the problem — it was the rusting of the cholesterol. Well, what was causing the rust? They started putting iron filings in the food system in 1941.

Kim: Oh my God.

Morley: And so when they started adding iron filings, that created an oxidative environment to rust the cholesterol that affected the endothelium. All of it stems from the fact that people didn’t understand copper and iron and oxygen. And it’s a three-ring circus. And if you understand how that three-ring circus works, you’ll be fine. If you don’t, you believe in disease, you believe in the nostrums of your doctor. And the whole purpose of the Root Cause Protocol is to make the system irrelevant. You don’t need this system. And at the very core of every one of those conditions is rising oxidative stress because you’re not making energy because you don’t have enough copper in your mitochondria.

Kim: But isn’t there also with that the over-accumulation of iron? That’s what I read a lot in your book. Can you speak to that and the dangers of that? Because I went to give blood the other day at the Red Cross. Red Cross saved my life as a baby — my mom was Rh negative, I was Rh positive and I was jaundiced. They kept me in the hospital three weeks and they called me the miracle baby. And before they took the blood, they were checking to see if I had enough iron in my system to see if they should continue. And I had gone to a completely different place when I was in Charlotte, North Carolina. But I didn’t understand why they were doing that. Why were they checking if I had enough iron if in fact, what you’re saying through your research is we have an oversupply almost?

Morley: The beam that runs medicine on the planet is — you’re anemic and you’re copper toxic. And if I can convince you that you need more iron and stop playing with that copper thing, I will have a patient for life. That’s really what it’s based on. And there’s dietary iron and there’s recycled iron. And here’s the part that’s really wild. The average woman has about 4,000 milligrams of iron in their body, the average guy about 5,000 — at least that’s what we’re told. If you want to know how much iron you really have in your body, get out your calculator, punch in your age, and multiply it times 365 because you gain a milligram of iron every day on planet earth. This is a formula that’s used by all iron biologists — it’s not my formula.

Morley: Robert Crichton made sure I understood that formula. He said, Morley, I just want to make sure you understand. He’s the dean of iron biology on the planet. His textbooks are used in all medical schools on the planet. I’m not talking to someone down the street — I’m talking to Robert Crichton, who’s a really big name in mineral metabolism. And I’ve got 26,000 milligrams of iron in my body — five times more iron than I should have based on that formula. And so it turns out that we have iron in our diet, but we also have a system. The formal name is called the Reticuloendothelial System. Took me two years to figure out that that meant recycling.

Kim: Even pronouncing it is pretty good.

Morley: I know. But it’s a recycling system. And every second of every day we replace two and a half million red blood cells. In the course of 24 hours we replace 200 billion red blood cells. Now to put this into context — one red blood cell has a billion atoms of iron. And so those red blood cells are being broken down in our spleen, which is on the left side. And then that iron that gets released in that process needs to get attached to something called transferrin — transport iron. And that attachment of iron to transferrin happens two and a half times faster in the presence of ceruloplasmin. We’re back to that important protein. Ceruloplasmin loves to work with iron and oxygen. And so ceruloplasmin is making sure that there’s this acceleration of getting iron onto transferrin, get it back down to the bone marrow, because the highest attraction for iron is in our bone marrow — so we can make new blood, new red blood cells, new white blood cells, new platelets. But what’s really interesting is that we have a hundred milligrams of copper in our body and 50% of it is hanging out in the bone marrow. And copper is making sure that this incoming flood of iron is being properly placed into heme, that the heme is going into the hemoglobin, and the hemoglobin is going into the red blood cell — two and a half million red blood cells a second. Have you ever seen the film clip of Lucy and Ethel at the chocolate factory?

Kim: Oh, that’s one of my favorites.

Morley: It’s a classic, right? And then the manager comes out and says, speed it up boys. What is speed it up boys? COVID, had an argument with my spouse, eating a lousy diet, was in a car accident. That stress changes the whole process of making red blood cells. It’s called stress erythropoiesis — very fancy term for making red blood cells under stress. And it’s a whole different ballgame. And none of that’s taught in medical school. They’re just taught that you’re anemic and you need more iron.

Kim: But let’s just suppose that no doctor says you’re anemic. You’re not anemic, okay. But you still have this issue. Does every human have this issue — or any biological form of life at this time? As I understand from reading your book, we don’t have enough copper to make the best and optimal energy and longevity of our organ systems.

Morley: Let me just finish up the recycling system and then come back to your question. We are told that we need about 18 to 20 milligrams of iron a day. No, that’s not true. What we need — if you want to get really technical — is 24.4 milligrams of iron by way of a recycling system that’s run by copper. We need one milligram of iron a day from our diet. And so if you want to be healthy, you really restrict the amount of iron going through your mouth and you build up your bioavailable copper to ensure optimal turnover of the iron in your recycling system. So 95% of the iron that we need every day to make 200 billion red blood cells comes from the recycling system — we just need a little tiny bit through our diet. And what they’ve done is pushed the recycling system aside. They talk about everything being about iron absorption. Did you absorb enough iron? Are your enterocytes absorbing iron? You need more ascorbic acid if you’re not getting enough iron in your diet. And they’re ignoring completely the recycling system, which is providing 95% of the iron that’s needed in the body.

Morley: So on top of that confusion, you have an iron fortification program that’s on steroids. And so now everything is fortified — wink, wink. The only people who are being fortified are the people making the product. They’re making a lot of money and they’re adding a lot of iron to our flours. Think of all the products that we buy every day. Think of all the feed that animals are eating every day that have been fortified. And then we go one step further and take a one-a-day supplement that’s got all sorts of iron in it — at least 18 to 20 milligrams of iron. There are prenatals out there that have 65 milligrams of iron every day. I heard of an individual whose father was given 900 milligrams of iron every day. Guess what happened to his father?

Kim: Heart attack, cancer attack.

Morley: He died of a heart attack after about three weeks of that regimen. And the doctor was shocked. He said, he’s so anemic. And the part that people don’t understand is if iron may show low in the blood, there’s no measurement of iron high in the tissue. That’s where the crisis is.

Kim: This is where the action is.

Morley: That’s exactly where the action is. And so we have all sorts of detailed measurement in the blood, but we’re not looking back at the tissue. We can do that through MRI. We can do it through needle biopsy.

Kim: I hear that’s being done in Florida. Is that true? You are connected with someone who’s actually doing MRI of the tissue to see how much iron is in storage?

Morley: Yes. And there’s a company out of Australia called Ferroscan — F-E-R-R-O-S-C-A-N — and they have MRIs all over the world that are devoted to measuring iron in the organs, principally in the liver. And they’re working on the heart and eventually all the organs.

Kim: That’s incredible. And as a matter of fact, we know that in Chinese medicine, in acupuncture and with the meridian system, the liver is where the action is between health and wellness. So let us suppose that this testing becomes available to more people and they have an over-accumulation of iron in the liver. Now what? Because it’s not going to show up in the blood.

Morley: It’s not going to show up in the blood. So it shows up in the liver, it’s being housed in the liver. And that buildup of iron is going to put a wet blanket on copper metabolism and retinol metabolism and a whole bunch of enzymes. There are 500 enzymes in the liver. And that buildup of iron is going to have a very negative effect on the overall metabolism of the liver. What we really recommend within the Root Cause Protocol is there are two parts to it — stops and starts. The stops are going to offend a lot of people who’ve been doing it for years not knowing that it disrupts copper metabolism, disrupts the production of ceruloplasmin, disrupts the production and activity of a lot of copper-based enzymes. We tell people to stop taking iron supplements, stop taking vitamin D supplements, stop taking calcium supplements, stop taking zinc supplements, stop taking one-a-days as a rule. And then we encourage people —

Kim: That is going to upset a lot of people. That’s going to really freak a lot of people out.

Morley: Well —

Kim: The D part is going to freak a lot of people out. Everybody’s scared now — my God, if you don’t get enough sun you’re going to be in trouble with D and you better start taking it. It was a big push out there.

Morley: I befriended a very famous lipidologist — he studied fats. His name was Fred Kummerow. And my strategy all along has been, if I find an article that I’m really impressed with, I’ll just call up the author and thank them. Well, when I found this article by Fred Kummerow, I was living in Chicago and it was a really good article. I found his number, called him. And he said, well, thank you for calling. Would you like to come down for lunch? He was living in Champaign-Urbana, a two-hour drive. I said, I’ll be there in a New York minute. And so a couple weeks later, I’m having lunch with Fred Kummerow. He was 98 years old — bigger than I was, full of vitality. We sat down to grass-fed hamburger and his homegrown tomatoes. He loved his chocolate milk. He was still working 20 hours a week in his lab. One of his signature research studies was a decade-long series of studies using pigs. People need to know that the physiology of a pig is very similar to the physiology of a human. And Dr. Kummerow realized that vitamin D supplements were very dangerous to human physiology.

Morley: So this is back in the seventies and early eighties. He was invited to be a keynote speaker at an international symposium on vitamin D metabolism. There were Nobel Laureates invited to this meeting. He got his PhD at University of Wisconsin in 1940 — they were the mecca of lipid metabolism back then. And he gets up and says, ladies and gentlemen, you do not supplement with vitamin D. And there was just this torrent of opposition and resistance. And I said, well, Dr. Kummerow, what happened as a result of that meeting? He leans forward and says, well, Morley, I’m the only one left standing. All the others are dead.

Kim: Wow.

Morley: He had good genes? No — he knew what to supplement with and what not to supplement with. He was a big magnesium guy, a huge magnesium researcher. And so when I find that kind of truth, I begin to dig in. And for people who are interested, there’s a masterclass that we have on the Root Cause Protocol website. We go for two hours and explain why you need to rethink this vitamin D. And if you’re still not convinced, at least get your nutrients from cod liver oil. Don’t get it from a vitamin D only supplement because cod liver oil has 10 times more vitamin A than vitamin D. Why? Because it’s 10 times more important. And nobody knows anything about retinol or vitamin A. Its most important property is its ability to activate copper, but also to be involved in regulating iron. And again, all of that genius has been lost to the ages.

Kim: Most of what’s on the internet in the health domain has people saying, okay, what do I take next? And there are a lot of people that can get up and they can be an expert in this domain. They speak with confidence and people take it like it’s fact. How many years were we told that salt is bad for you? Real salt, not just table salt. How many years did they take the American public off of salt — for 50 years. Until finally a scientist wrote a book called The Salt Fix, about the study of salt, how it really works, the whole system. I was a tournament tennis player and I didn’t use salt. It’s the kind of revolutionary turnaround in thinking. When you think something’s bad for you. How many years did we go without having eggs? Oh my God, eggs have cholesterol, it could cause a heart attack. What I appreciate about you and your work is that you provide evidence and the history. So there’s a flow, there’s a progression of what came about, how it happened. We had Dr. Stephanie Seneff on to talk about the impact of glyphosate. That is the most disturbing thing. If most of our bodies have glyphosate because we ate whatever vegetables, fruits, the grass was treated with it, the meat — what is your take on the relationship between bringing copper back in when we have glyphosate in our bodies? The impacts of that with the iron and copper metabolism.

Morley: Let me just amplify what Dr. Seneff may have talked about. This is really important. Glyphosate was patented as an industrial pipe cleaner. What’s it really good at? Chelating minerals. That’s its job. It’s really good at it. Don Huber — a scientist now retired who’s been studying glyphosate for many decades. What’s important to understand is the kinetics, the speed with which glyphosate robs minerals out of the soil and out of your body. So for people who live in California — do you know about earthquakes? They’re measured on a logarithmic scale. An earthquake of three — dishes rattled, but everything’s fine. An earthquake of twelve — nobody’s left.

Kim: Even six is pretty bad. I’ve been in a six.

Morley: Twelve is devastating. So let’s come back to glyphosate. The minerals are being chelated at a different order of magnitude. Calcium and magnesium are being chelated at 3.3. Iron and zinc at 8.9. Copper — 11.9. So what is that telling us? It tells us that glyphosate is chelating copper a billion times faster than calcium or magnesium and a thousand times faster than zinc. Now, what’s the problem with that? Well, those big numbers — a billion times faster, a thousand times faster — we don’t understand them. So they go right over our head and we say, well, it can’t be that important. No, this is really, really important. Because I was in a meeting with Dr. Seneff back in 2018, a breakfast meeting. She’s sitting right across from me, and she leaned forward and she said, Morley, do you want to know why glyphosate is so toxic to copper?

Morley: And I thought, I’ve died and gone to heaven. I ran an eight-minute mile at one time. My younger son ran a mile in four minutes and two seconds. He was twice as fast. When I was 18, I was driving at 140 miles an hour — twice as fast as anyone else on the highway. But that was only twice as fast. We can’t comprehend a thousand or a billion times faster. Glyphosate, in my humble opinion, was put on the planet to decimate the environment, to decimate the human. Let’s deal with what happened in 1987 — the French government said glyphosate is against the law. We will not allow any glyphosate to be used anywhere within the borders of France. And what they found out in 2022 is that 99% of French citizens who’ve never been exposed to glyphosate in their food were still repeating glyphosate in their urine. What does that tell us? Glyphosate is everywhere. It’s in the air, it’s in the water. You can say, I only buy organic food. It doesn’t matter. It’s in the air. It’s in the water.

Kim: Also the countries deliver food to each other throughout Europe. I lived in Europe. In Germany, a lot of the foods were brought in from Spain. You don’t know.

Morley: The importance here is that the PAM enzyme — a lot of signaling peptides that need to be activated — has two atoms of copper in that enzyme. If those two atoms of copper are not there, no ticky, no washy, it doesn’t work. And so my theory — can’t prove it — but I think that one of the reasons why glyphosate exists is it’s intended to kill the PAM enzyme. Isn’t it curious that so many people need hormone replacement therapy now? Because they can’t activate their own hormones. People are on all sorts of thyroid medication. Why? Because they can’t get their active form of T3 to do its job. And it goes on and on and on. People with hypertension not knowing that vasopressin, which is a very important enzyme in the body, needs to be active. It needs the PAM enzyme to activate it. And so we live in this toxic world, and we’re just talking about one element — glyphosate. We haven’t gotten to all the other elements that are out there.

Kim: One of the scary things — I want to ask you this. One of the things I asked Dr. Seneff when I interviewed her was how do we detox from it. And it wasn’t so obvious that there was a clear way forward, which was very disturbing.

Morley: Sauerkraut juice appears promising. And what people need to understand about sauerkraut is that you take a cabbage — a hundred grams of it — and you’re going to have 60 milligrams of whole food vitamin C in that hundred grams. But when you make sauerkraut, when you ferment it properly, you’re going to increase the amount of whole food vitamin C tenfold. It’s going to turn into 600 milligrams of vitamin C. And what’s at the center of vitamin C? Tyrosinase enzyme. It’s a very powerful enzyme. Nobody knows about it except for Sabeeha Merchant as a plant physiologist, but it’s actually the enzyme that colors our body. We’re told that melanin is important for hair color, eye color, skin color. But the colors inside our body matter the most. The heart is supposed to be red, the liver is supposed to be brown, the spleen is supposed to be purple, the gallbladder is supposed to be green. Those colors are very intentional and very important. And when I shared this a couple of years ago with my class, there was a surgeon among the students, and she said, Morley, I’ve never seen a purple spleen.

Morley: And you could have heard a mic drop. Because color has vitality, color has frequency and energy. And one of the most important organs in our body — which nobody knows anything about — is called the spleen. It’s called the hidden organ, and it’s also called the organ of odd numbers. 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11 relate to the spleen. It’s one inch thick, three inches long, five inches wide, weighs seven ounces. But under stress it can go up to seven pounds — a 16-fold increase in weight. And it hides behind ribs nine through eleven. Why would it go from seven ounces to seven pounds? What’s accumulating in the spleen that nobody knows about? It’s called iron. Because it’s a major processing center for those two and a half million red blood cells a second. And if that iron starts to accumulate in the spleen, it’s the gateway for all autoimmune disease. The encapsulated bacteria and the pathogens, and particularly the parasites, can’t be killed in the white pulp because the spleen is so preoccupied with red pulp trying to process all the iron that’s been accumulating. And it’s just this whole area of physiology that nobody knows anything about.

Kim: You’re into energy medicine, aren’t you? At a fundamental level?

Morley: Yeah.

Kim: Have you ever had acupuncture?

Morley: Absolutely. Did it work for you? What do you think the meridians are based on?

Kim: Acupuncture.

Morley: It’s copper. Copper is running the meridians.

Kim: Wait a minute. Say it again. Copper runs the meridians. Yes. How do you know that? How did you come up with that?

Morley: One of my students is a very gifted reflexologist who’s intensely passionate about acupuncture. And there’s a German-based acupuncturist who made that declaration many years ago. Again, anytime we’re involved in moving energy, it’s going to involve copper. It’s so central to life. There’s a world-renowned mineral expert at Auburn University, Paul Coning, and in 2004 and 2006 he said there are 50,000 atoms of copper in every mitochondria. We have 40 quadrillion mitochondria in our body. And Paul Coning went on record as saying there can be no life on planet earth without copper.

Kim: I want to go back to retinol. And I know you talk about this day and night. But for this audience right now, for part one with Morley Robbins, I want you to talk about how retinol works with copper and iron, where we get it from. I know part of it is in the cod liver oil. And there’s a lot of people who will say, I don’t want to take cod liver oil, it tastes like hell. I take mine with tomato juice just because I don’t know how else to drown out that lovely taste. I also want you to talk about why retinol is being missed. And yet there are retinol creams. Is it just for the face or —

Morley: Well, they want you to believe that retinol is only skin deep. It’s running the show. And the folks who may be familiar with the book 1984 —

Kim: Oh, definitely.

Morley: The book was written in 1948. When you subtract 1948 from 1984, you get 36. When you add 36 to 1984, you get 2020. And that’s what COVID was all about. It was the initiation of the totalitarian state here on planet earth. That’s what that whole thing was about — a complete revamping of the world as we knew it. And for those who thought it was real, didn’t know it was an IQ test. It was a very traumatizing event. But you had to be able to step back and say, what’s really going on here? And so when I started this work back in 2010, I came across 36 lies. I went down methodically and identified 36 different parts of the narrative where they’re completely wrong — absolutely, fundamentally wrong. And when I got to 36, I said, so the whole thing’s a lie. I flipped the narrative and said, okay, what are they telling us to do? Let’s do the opposite. And then I began to study — how would that affect energy production, ability to neutralize oxidative stress? And the Rosetta Stone was flipping the narrative upside down and putting it on its axis.

Kim: You know what, Morley — all the academicians and all the funding that goes into academia and all the research — nobody wants to be wrong and very few people are willing to be wrong. And it’s the competitiveness that permeates that domain that’s also responsible for an unwillingness — almost like a spiritual unwillingness, a hardness of the spirit — to be unwilling to be wrong. That’s part of the psychology of what we would say we’ve learned in school. Science is an unwillingness to be wrong. How many of these people went back? Even with fluoride in the water — what has it taken, 60 years? And only now some are acknowledging it’s a poison, it’s a toxin, it never belonged in our water. But look how long it’s taken. So we can plan on and we can know and expect that the domain of science and medicine will continually, as a human consciousness, be reluctant to being wrong. And that’s the danger to being in full possession of our wellness.

Morley: Very true.

Kim: That’s who we’re listening to. Who has the authority to tell us?

Morley: We’ve been taught to listen to the authority figure, the expert. And largely it’s the physician — not knowing that they don’t get any training in nutrition, virtually none. I wanted to be a doctor at one point. And as a very dear friend said, it’s a blessing you didn’t get indoctrinated. But for many years I thought I didn’t get into medical school because I wasn’t smart enough. But then I started to really study it and found out that actually most of the doctors are firstborns. Firstborns protect the status quo. Firstborns don’t question authority. And that’s a very foundational psychological event — if you don’t question authority, how are you going to grow? How are you going to really stretch the understanding? And so one of my clients years ago was a young guy in his thirties with Lyme disease. He couldn’t work, but he decided to teach himself astrology. And the day came when we were going to have this consult, and he opens up the conversation saying, Morley, what day were you born?

Morley: I said, well, that’s an odd question. But November 15th. He said, I knew it. He said, I knew you were a Scorpio. He said, only a Scorpio would dig the way you have to get to the truth. But only a true Scorpio would take on the entire medical establishment and not back down. And I won’t. Because the whole basis of the Root Cause Protocol is to ignore the enemies — pathogens, toxins, heavy metals — ignore the enemies, ignite the energy. Let’s make sure we’ve got copper, let’s make sure it’s bioavailable, let’s make sure it’s in the mitochondria, and let’s start making some energy. The blueprint that runs our body depends on energy. And they forgot to tell us that 80% of your immune system’s in your gut. No, it’s not. It’s in the mitochondria. And so we’ve really got to have smart mitochondria to be able to be alert, to know what’s going on and to respond.

Morley: And it’s this distortion of the truth over the last century that has caused us to lose our true north and lose sight of the fact that our ancestors — go back to the research of Weston A. Price. He was out in the field a hundred years ago, discovering the truth of food and nutrition worldwide that was causing people to have perfect teeth. And what a lot of people don’t know is that perfect teeth meant perfect spine, meant perfect health. Because at a developmental stage in our fetus, we go from 32 buds to 64 buds. 32 become our teeth, the other 32 become our spine. And so he was looking for what are the nutrients we need to have in our diet in order to have perfect health? Why was he so driven? Because when his son was 12 years old, he gave him a root canal as any good dentist would back in the 1920s. And for four years, his son struggled with his health and then eventually died. And he was so distraught, he vowed he was going to find out how do you make perfect teeth? And what he discovered — his going-in proposition was that people with perfect teeth would be vegetarian and low fat. And because he was a meticulous scientist, he recorded in 14 different communities around the world that 65% of their calories came from fat, especially retinol — ding, ding, ding. And they all ate protein, animal protein — from the Masai tribesmen in Africa to whale blubber up in Alaska. Everyone ate animal-based protein.

Kim: Which is what people are trying to get rid of now like crazy. There’s a big movement, a push. And the transhumanist movement is trying to absolutely wipe meat off the table — Bill Gates buying up farmland, killing off all the animals, making lab meat and making it a number one priority.

Morley: Bill Gates is a franchise. Hillary Clinton is a franchise. There’s someone behind that movement. And it’s the antithesis of human health. We were designed — our mitochondria really were designed to burn fat, not sugar. I’m convinced of that. And so what did they do? What is something you would never do with your car? You would never pour sugar into your gas tank, would you? And that’s exactly what we’ve done with our body. And all that started in the early 1900s when they were taking all of the minerals out of the food by refining them — wink wink, we’re going to refine this. And then they had to put a lot of sugar in. Why? Because it tasted like cardboard, had no nutritional value. And so they had to sweeten it up. And we’ve been living that diet now for a hundred years.

Kim: Even the alternative health area — Dr. Gundry and others. A lot of the doctors are pushing having sugar, having allulose. I like allulose. It’s very good for the mitochondria. But in terms of getting whole food vitamin C, where do you see that happening?

Morley: I come back to Michael Greenberg — what’s enduring, what are the foods and sugars that have sustained humanity for millennia? Galactose comes out of milk — very important. The last sugar you want in your body is fructose.

Kim: Your body makes it, right?

Morley: Well, your body does make it. But high fructose corn syrup, which is the backbone of the food industry — the first thing it becomes is called sorbitol, it’s an alcohol sugar. And what does sorbitol do? It chelates 98% of the copper that’s around it. Could that be a problem? And so when you are focusing on fructose as your sweetener, you’re going to kill your liver. The rise of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease — it’s the fastest growing disease on the planet. And people don’t understand why.

Kim: And high fructose corn syrup has been added to all young people’s diets in schools and everywhere they go. It’s a copper chelator.

Morley: Myra Fields, a famous mineral physiologist at the USDA, originally from Israel — she was there for 20 years. She started blowing the whistle on high fructose corn syrup in 1970. And here we are 55 years later. She wrote some impeccable research back in the day that proved this was beyond poison. Nothing changed.

Kim: If we can go back to retinol, I want to flush it out a little more.

Morley: Yeah.

Kim: And then I want you to share about hepcidin.

Morley: Okay, go ahead.

Kim: Retinol. What does it do? What is its relationship to copper and iron?

Morley: Everyone knows when we go out in the sunlight, we’re going to make some vitamin D. And how is it making the vitamin D? It’s going to break down the cholesterol under our skin and turn it into the substrate needed to make vitamin D. The part that no one’s ever told people is that when you go out in the sunlight, you’re also breaking down retinol in your diet. Where is retinol found? Grass-fed butter, grass-fed heavy cream, yard eggs, grass-fed beef, liver, and cod liver oil — those are five great sources of retinol. When you’re breaking it down, you’re breaking it into what are called retinoids. There are different classifications — there are retinoic acids, and those are hormones, just like hormone D, but there are four of them. They’re really powerful and nobody knows anything about them. The retinoic acids are very powerful, very important for the body’s physiology. But they also make what are called nuclear receptors. And like with thyroid — you mentioned you had a thyroid issue.

Kim: Since age 12.

Morley: Well, you were retinol deficient when you came out. I knew you were.

Kim: I was a tournament tennis player starting at age seven.

Morley: That’s great. That’s beautiful. But you didn’t have enough. In order to make thyroid hormone, you have to have RXR kissing TR — thyroid receptor. When those two can kiss in the promoter region of the gene, voila, we can make T4. And then the vast majority of that T4 travels down to the liver and it gets kissed by an enzyme called the deiodinase enzyme to make T3. And 90% of the T3 is made in your liver. Guess when that deiodinase enzyme stops working — when you have too much iron in your liver. And so the thyroid, this bow tie up here, it doesn’t run the body. It’s just a narrative, just a hijack. Copper is what’s running the show, folks. It really is. It’s hard to fathom. Get the book, go to the website, listen to my 300 different podcasts. But the thing is, when the liver backs up with iron, it sends a lot of things into a tailspin. So back to the retinol — why is it important for copper? Retinol and copper are supposed to be stored in the liver. Very hard to store things when the liver is full of iron. And the enzyme that loads copper into the ceruloplasmin protein is called ATP7B. The key to turn on ATP7B is retinol — it’s 13-cis retinoic acid, one of those hormones that nobody knows anything about.

Morley: There’s another copper loading enzyme called ATP7A, and there are about 50 or more copper enzymes like PAM, superoxide dismutase, cytochrome C oxidase — we can go on and on. But the key is also retinol, again 13-cis retinoic acid. And so when Eisenhower has this heart attack in 1954 and Ansel Keys comes out of the blue and says we’ve got to get cholesterol out of your diet, get retinol out of your diet — people didn’t know what was going on. And so they shut down the ability to make bioavailable copper in 1955. We were none the wiser. You want to have a fascinating read — get Fannie Farmer’s cookbook from Boston and look up the recipes. It’s all based on heavy cream, fatty substances, and foods that are nutrient dense that we don’t have today. The nutrients have been taken out of the food. Why?

Kim: Right out of the soil, out of everything. Out of the animals.

Morley: Out of the animals. And so that ensures that we’re going to have low energy, be more docile, and be more compliant with the game plan.

Kim: How do people find out about which copper to take? I know about the product you’ve had to formulate because other people weren’t doing exactly what you felt needed to be done based on your findings. Are there other sources of copper? How are people going to get it?

Morley: Well, there are other sources of copper, but what makes copper unique is that unfortunately it needs to be in complex with other nutrients. It needs to be hanging out with retinol and the B vitamins that are in a desiccated beef liver. And there are all sorts of enzymes in beef liver. The spirulina that we have in our product — spirulina is one of the richest sources of superoxide dismutase. If we’re not making water inside the mitochondria, we’re going to make superoxide. Superoxide needs to be neutralized — dismutase being the neutralizer. But superoxide dismutase is also one of the richest sources of copper on the planet and it’s found in prevalent doses inside spirulina. And we also use turmeric — because the active ingredient curcumin is a powerful anti-inflammatory. But the other forms of copper — what makes copper unique is that unlike other minerals, copper needs co-factors, these other nutritional elements to enable it to be bioavailable. It isn’t that you just took a dose of this or that and everything’s fine. You’ve got to understand that copper is unique on the planet, both in terms of its function, but in its use and how it gets synthesized in these enzymes and regulatory proteins.

Kim: I have one more question for you. The vitamin C that most of us are taking — even now, our fruits and vegetables are being sprayed with these chemicals all over them which are saturating the fruits and vegetables. So in terms of getting whole food vitamin C, how do you see that happening?

Morley: Let’s make sure people know that there’s a difference between ascorbic acid and whole food vitamin C — they’re not the same at all. Whole food vitamin C is like your car. It has an engine, a steering wheel, wheels, and a cover. And the cover of that automobile is ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid is the cover of the car — no moving parts. What’s important for people to know — one of my heroes is Albert Szent-Györgyi. And what did St. George do? He slayed the dragon. What’s the dragon in our body? Inflammation. What do you need in order to neutralize inflammation? You’ve got to have copper. Where’s the copper found? At the center of the engine called tyrosinase — it has two atoms of copper. You don’t get any of that from ascorbic acid. But 18 months before he got his Nobel Prize in December of 1937, on the 4th of July 1936, he wrote a letter to the editor of Nature journal. There’s a pecking order in the publication industry — Nature is at the top. And he wrote this letter about his research that he was doing with Hungarian peppers. And what he says in black and white is — ascorbic acid does not cure scurvy. And yet 18 months later, he’s getting a Nobel Prize — wink wink — for discovering ascorbic acid. And it’s one of the great mysteries.

Kim: Oh my God.

Morley: One of the great mysteries.

Kim: I didn’t know that.

Morley: And I have a lot of respect for Szent-Györgyi. He’s a brilliant man. But something happened — there was some political card game. His —

Kim: His life was threatened. That happens a lot.

Morley: It does happen. But the point is, we have been hoodwinked for almost a hundred years. Ascorbic acid was first made by Hoffmann-La Roche in 1934.

Kim: And they’re a pharmaceutical company, right?

Morley: Big pharmaceutical company. And I’m not denying that ascorbic acid is a part of our physiology, but it needs to be coming from a copper-related form, not from some test tube. Ascorbic acid by and of itself is not what we need in order to ensure our physiology. We need a constant source of usable, bioavailable copper to run the machinery that regulates iron, regulates oxygen, and 13 other nutrient substrates. And that’s lost on modern science today.

Kim: How do you know how much the dosage should be of whole food vitamin C? Is there such a thing?

Morley: Well, what the nutrient tables will tell you is you need a thousand milligrams of ascorbic acid, but you only need 60 milligrams of whole food vitamin C. So when I see dichotomous contrasts like that, I’m like, maybe they’re pulling our leg. We recommend that people get at least 400 to 800 milligrams of whole food vitamin C. The beauty of it is that it’s water-based, water soluble. What you can’t use, you lose. So there’s no toxic buildup inside the body. And the real challenge, Kim, is holding back because we could easily have 75 elements in the protocol and we’ve tried to keep it as close to 12 as we can just because people are going to get overwhelmed.

Kim: How can people reach you, Morley?

Morley: Got a website — RCP123.org. On social media there’s the Root Cause Protocol group, the Root Cause Protocol page. We’re on Instagram, we’re on YouTube. For those who are really interested in connecting with me, my email address is morleyrobbins@gmail.com. And for those courageous few that really want to talk to me, my phone number is area code (847) 922-8061. I get calls all day long, all week long. Happy to chat with people and answer their questions and make sure they’re moving in the right direction. And I really appreciate the chance to have this kind of engaging dialogue to pull the curtain back on a very important piece of our physiology.

Kim: Last question. In finishing — God comes to you and says, Morley, you have to leave an exclamation mark after your life. And that exclamation mark is going to integrate and move to billions of people so that after your passing, whenever that is, the work, the reference, the keys remain. A lot of people after their lives — their bodies of work disintegrate or disappear, either by people left behind or they start modifying and changing things. What is your exclamation point?

Morley: I actually have three. It’s a three-part answer. I’m 72. I have more energy now than when I was in my fifties. I don’t know how long I’m going to live, but my work’s not done yet. I know that. But the three things that I fully intend to do — one is there’s a blood test that’s not allowed to be done for the most part worldwide, that tells us how intelligent our copper enzymes are. It’s called the ferroxidase enzyme assay. It’s telling us not just how tall it is, but how smart it is. And I fully intend to create a lab that’s going to allow that. The second thing is I want that same lab to make ceruloplasmin, this very important copper protein. Let me be very graphic with people. In 1958, I’m six years old. My dad, who has manic depression and schizophrenia, is going to have a second electroshock therapy. And he says, not going to happen. And he runs away from home, never to come back. Imagine my surprise — that was 1958. And imagine my surprise a few years ago when I’m reading about a study done at Tulane University in 1959, the next year, where they’re administering one shot of ceruloplasmin to 34 people who have schizophrenia and 30 of 34 are cured.

Morley: No more schizophrenia. And they’ve done this with malaria, with heart disease. But in a research setting — we don’t need to tell anybody about it. And so this word that people can’t pronounce — ceruloplasmin — it’s really powerful, really important. So I want to have a lab that’s going to make that. Third thing I want to do is create a copper-centric AI and get past the charade of information people are blathering on about — AI told me this and AI told me that. I’ve got many students out there who say, but what about copper? What about ceruloplasmin? What about ferroxidase? And the AI will say, oh yeah, that’s important. They’ll never bring it up on their own.

Kim: I’ve done a talk about AI a couple of times and it’s very clear to many of us already that it will be as good as its programming. And its management — how it’s designed to manage first the programming, what it’s taught, then how it’s taught to manage whether you get the information or you don’t, whether it’s confused with other things, whether it’s clarified, whether it’s emphasized. This is the interior inner workings of AI. So you’re right — it depends. It sounds like you need a large language model that’s separate.

Morley: And we’ve already started.

Kim: Fantastic. And just for grins and giggles — all of this is in Cuba, but you’ve got to spell it right. CUBA — so you can see the symbol for copper. That’s your exclamation point.

Kim: For those of you who are interested in the work that we’re doing at It’s Rainmaking Time, go to itsrainmakingtime.ch. We may pop the show over at YouTube — we do, we don’t market on YouTube, we just kind of let it be there. And for those of you who would like to participate in a live Q&A with Morley and It’s Rainmaking Time, please get back to us and let us know. And we want to thank you so much for being here, Morley. God bless you. It’s such an honor to be alive with you at this time in history. Thanks so much for everything you’re doing.

Morley: Thanks again for the opportunity. It’s a great discussion.

Kim: Thank you. It’s Rainmaking Time!